Are we our own fate?

Edit: This thread is to be philosophical. As philosophy, it may eventually come to cointain matters that may pertain to religion.

I can determine 3 levels of control we have over our lives.

1.Chess: no control, forced through a specific path even if we think it ios what we want, or what we want to happen is controlled (gods or Fate control us directly, or a single-player, non-linear RPG)

2.Maze: we do what we want, as long as it leads to a predetermined event (godsd determine a fate and steer us to it, or we're like the Earth computer in Hitchhiker's guide, or a sims game left mainly on auto-run)

3.Dice: we do what we want, or at least whatever is easiest or most beneficial in an uncontrolled environment (no gods or fate, or at least uncontrolling gods, or a computerized environment simulation program)

I think the second one. If the first one, blasphemy would probably not exist in any form. If the third one, everything would be chaos. Complete chaos, not just relative chaos. Multitudes of micro-reasons, but that's a general summary. What are your views on this?

The first one suggests ordained chaos!

I take the first one, propelled forward by subconscious methods of scientific nature, much resembling your second description.

As I believe that we live as one giant organism, so to speak, nobody is free in anything; we must respond to commands which have for natural function to propose us the keys and answers which compose the adversity of our human logic, which in turn, the reactions to such phantom thought process shall fuel these labouring human elements forward which are needed to accomplish whatever role we have to play.

God that made no sense. Hum, did it...?

It made plenty of sense to me, or at least it seems to. Our logic, combined with others' logic and our environment, dictates what we do. Is that about what you mean, summarised and simplified?

I believe in, sort of, what the matrix has to say about fate. I think that we each have predetermined areas, but we make our own choices, its just that it has been foreseen and there is no other path to take.

I also believe(though it may seem contradictory) that one can change one's own fate through diligence and perserverance. That, if you try hard enough for long enough, even the most immutable thing can change in some way or form.

I've heard of such before, but I do not understand the idea of making one's own choices if the destination at the end is already set in stone.

No matter what choice one may make, this idea presents that it shall lead unto the same conclusion, and so, how is it a choice? Does the choice reflect the individual moment? Because if not, it is hardly a choice at all.

This makes me wonder then...what is a choice, even? Especially when one knows that they cannot travel back in time to see if they could have made a different choice. Perhaps, in such a context, it does not even exist. I do not believe in destiny, fate or control of one's existence; to me, these things, in the most logical sense, constitute as justification when embraced by the frailty of our very beings, and the shoddy structure which holds us and our existence.

It made plenty of sense to me, or at least it seems to. Our logic, combined with others' logic and our environment, dictates what we do. Is that about what you mean, summarised and simplified?

Logical thought process is merely a navigator for said environnement-although we follow and abide by perception and the most logical outcome, conclusion and approximate ''preview'', what is fed unto us is the sole and most significant element. Mostly, because our logic may not always apply, no matter the conviction. Although I believe that the two require intricate elaboration, that pretty much is what I meant-even if logic and reasoning fail, our core presentation is still confirmed by those around us, and we perceive others and their acts via our own understanding.

I believe those insane could be a key to demystyfying such. It might seem confusing...as of late, I seem to have a hard time presenting any kind of decent and intelligent feedback on such subjects, but better late then never, I hope?

The set ending with some free will would be accomplished by any options that could not eventually lead to thwe set event being made impossible. It wouldeventually funnel into fewer and fewer choices as one neared the event. It's the difference between going straight through FFX-2 with as little backstory and sidequests as possible, or doing all the sidequests, gaining power, gaining background knowledge. Your ultimate goal is to defeat the Vegnagun, and the only way to stop it happeniong is to stop playing. And yeah, better late than never, unless it's administering antivenin.

*Laughs!*

So what you are saying is, that although our choices are different, they all lead towards the same outcome? We could live our life two different ways as an example, but both ways, whatever choices were made to lead one in whichever, lead in the same place...

Or perhaps what matters is what skills, wisdom and what have you one has picked up upon the way there? This would mean that the outcome in question requires certain elements to deal with when there.

But if such, it would entail the following;

-Wisdom and experience would have an absolute means of being obtained,

-choices really are not that, lest considering the first plausibility, and it still begs the question as to how can we know what a choice is, if we cannot go back to see if something else might have been possible.

to address your first issue, yes, wisdom and experience are always learned, because everything that happens to you instills a little bit of both in you, all that changes is the amount, which depends on your receptiveness.

And to address your second issue, all choices can be seen as that, because we CAN see what would or would not have happened if we had not made those choices. the only thing that differs is that some choices are more obviously seen with their consequences. This also includes all of the mundane little choices we make every day, such as(for me) going to school or not, I can decide not to, but it is quite obvious to see what would happen if I didn't. another one would be a larger choice, such as...what college to go to, like if I went to lets say, Illinois State University instead of the place I wanted to go, the choice wouldn't have as many obvious consequences if I pursued the same major both places, but I would not have happened to meet the people I had or had the same experience, which is a hidden consequence.

Basically, what I'm saying is that all choices can lead to the same place, its just that various things differ. Eventually, we will all end up in the same place. in the ground(or cremated, but you get my meaning). The only thing that makes each person different are the choices that person makes and the choices their ancestor made.