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Post by Revenant on Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:39 am

Not everyone belive in magic, but everyone agrees that there are lots of things whitch science cant give an explanation to. Magic is something that makes the impossibilities possible. Magic is more then a fantasy.
What do you think of magic?
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Post by Miss Valentine on Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:51 pm

I may be very mixed in my beliefs sometimes, but one thing I do believe in is magic. I see it as a force in the Universe which can be used to create change, which is actually the Wiccan explanation for it but though I'm not Wiccan I do agree.

My reason for keeping faith in magic, even though I have trouble with religious beliefs, is that I know it works. Believe me I wouldn't even bother to do the things I do with spells and whatnot if I didn't know that it was almost guaranteed to work. Some people might say it's coincidence, or placebo effect, or whatever, but I do believe that you can create small changes in life by practising a little "green" magic. A lot of people do the same rituals as myself, but don't even realise that what they are doing is actually magic. Herbalism is magic, because you use the lifeforce of that plant as well as its chemical components to create a change in the human body (making it superior to synthetic medicine). Lighting a candle is magic, because you create a change in the atmosphere that adds to the good vibes of the Universe.

The reason people think I'm Wiccan is because like Wiccans and other Pagan faiths I take my rituals a step beyond merely herbalism or lighting a candle. I put a lot of energy into it and I make it specific to match my needs. I don't believe that you can create money or manipulate someone or something using magic, it's more subtle than that. Black Magic people try and do those sorts of things and I laugh because it's really stupid, and dangerous. Sending such strong manipulative and often negative vibes into the Universe can't do anyone any good, especially not the person doing it.

Anyways, that's my point of view. On a lighter note, I have a lot of fun with magic in computer games, especially the elemental ones Very Happy
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Post by Chaos' Master on Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:02 pm

On some level, I deeply believe in magic. not as how we normally think of it(Val-han is an exception), but as a subtle voice or movement that creates the "butterfly effect", you know, the one that says if a butterfly moves its wings half a world away, it has some effect on the here and now.

But, on the surface and a little below, I'm a serious skeptic, I look at people who have claimed to have done magic and I laugh, because I know that kind of magic cannot be done(or so I think that I think...I'm not too sure). But, on another level entirely, I believe in the type of magic only normally found in video games and books. I think this way because I am also a person who believes that if someone tries hard enough anything can happen, and that it can't all be coincedence.

Basically, though the question may sound simple in itself, it requires an answer beyond any complexity that people in this day and age have the capacity to think about, because you would have to analyze yourself on all the levels of your being. When we can't even do this with religion, what makes people believe they can do that with something much more complex? What I am saying is that I believe in magic on many levels, yet on many others, I deny its very existance.
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Post by Miss Valentine on Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:17 pm

I understand what you're saying. Some magics we come into contact with every day in our lives, we take them for granted and many don't even see it as magic. Like you described with the Butterfly Effect and the vibes we feel on a daily basis, sometimes you just feel something is coming or happening without being able to explain why.

The magic of the human lifeforce is blindly obvious to us and easy to believe, yet "hocus pocus" of course makes it hard because it's become a stereotype in society. If you mention Magic to your average idiot, they would immediately think of what we see in games or films, that sort of thing. I think that's what causes the skepticism, because we've grown up thinking that magic is a load of hocus pocus and don't really know the meaning of it.

But I find the magic in games and books enchanting because you feel a certain amount of control over it. You are not really doing it, yet you are. Dammit I can't put that into words very well Very Happy
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Post by JET73L on Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:26 pm

I say magic exists. Actual magic, not just another word for psychokinesis or pyrokinesis or instasnt transmission. Actual magic, calling upon other powers and stuff like that. It's just that most people don't believe in it, so they can't allow themselvesd to use it, and even if they did, they would be unlikely to posess the necessary talents.
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Post by Miss Valentine on Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:32 pm

I wonder how much more I would be capable of if I could open my mind more. I'm not so much interested in manipulating magic for my own ends, just subtely using is as an aid as I do now but maybe on a slightly bigger scale. There are a lot of books in my favourite New Age shop that I look at but my skepticism creeps in sometimes and I put them down. Some of them could be complete twaddle, but at the same time I could be missing something.
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Post by Revenant on Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:18 am

As for religion and science
You all surely heard about Jesus Christ and about his resurection. I can not say it is all truth but if it is, no mater was it from god or from devil, it was magic. So it might be a real aprovement of magic. And not only Jesus Christ. There is much more examples. Still: all of those might be just stories. But they are so many... I don't belive that wal all just a lie.
I know that some scientists says that all people are magicians. There is some sort of wall in everione's mind, whitch is blocking the magik. This wall may be broken with some hudge stress or some accident. And ofcourse it was prooved by facts.
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Post by Miss Valentine on Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:36 am

That wall you speak about, that's what I'm aware of in myself. That's why I hope if I keep up my practice, and maybe concentrate on my meditation a bit more, I might be able to start breaking it down.

I went to a Reiki healer last year, she said the reason I can't experience full self awareness or even spirit energy is because my head never rests, she said she could barely touch me because my head is so full of chatter!! I admit, I've never really rested in my thoughts, I have too many of them, I never stop. You can tell by how much I post and how long my posts can sometimes be, it's all the constant noise in my mind!!

Funny enough I met a "Witch" and she said the same thing. She said my mind is never fully focused or even in the present, it's back and forward like lightning. Probably why I'm so scatty and dumb, I never achieve even my full brain potential because I have a serious problem with focus.

So that's one of my goals, to see if maybe controlling my mind might break down that wall to higher conscious, and perhaps magic. If there is a higher leve of magic than the one I practise, then it's there, and I will know when I find it.
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Post by JET73L on Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:44 pm

Reiki healer? as in the eastern... erm... crud, it's something about life and wind or breath or something. Is that it?
Please explain more.
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Post by Miss Valentine on Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:07 pm

Ah great, I just wrote a load on this subject and lost the lot because my computer froze. Figures!

Reiki, to be honest I don't know much about it, I didn't get into it fully. I ony discovered it at the Spirit festival I went to, where many practices of this kind were being promoted. The Reiki woman caught my eye and I just thought I'd give it a go, she said she could heal me so I said Ok. Of course my nerves at doing something new like that probably also interfered with the healing she was trying to give me, or it just wasn't right for me. I just know that it is to do with channeling life force to create a change in the body such as healing, the name sounds Japanese to me. It seems a lot less physical than Shiatsu or Yoga, just a lot of the "healing hands" kind of thing.

I tried other things at the same festival, such as Chakra Cleansing (a Yoga off-shoot, which was really calming and gave me a clear head for all of 10 minutes^^), a Shiatsu Massage (she nearly killed me it was really rough and she cracked my joints a lot!) and Sound Therapy. That was the best because I have such an affinity with sound.
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Post by Chaos' Master on Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:18 pm

you know, on the subject of the "chatter" in your head, I think Comedian Ralphie May explains it best. he said something to the effect of, "You(women) are always thinking." and, of course, followed it up by saying, "Your brain hates you." this is because guys have the innate ability to purposely think about nothing, for a process Ralphie called drefraging our brains, condensing all our knowledge and getting rid of useless information, such as your mother-in-law's birthday.

but, I think, that, in itself, is a type of magic because it would seem like it takes a great amount of concentration to clear your head of everything, but for some people(mostly guys) it is really, really easy.

One big example of magic that has been documented is the "superhuman" strength exerted by people in times of dire need, such as a mother trying to save her child from being crushed by a car actually lifted the car with her bare hands. it has also been documented that we humans only normally utilize about 10% of the brain's capacity/power. now, if that is so, where is the rest of the 90%, I think its the true magic.
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Post by Revenant on Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:30 am

Reiki healer..........well, we don't have such things in Ukrein but thet doesn'means that we don't belive in it.
I always knew thet there ARE some people in the world who opened their unnatural abilities and even tried to teach others. For example, I'm welknown about guru, who turned their chakra (or other type of spiritual energy) on their living abilities what allows them to live so long.
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Post by JET73L on Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:42 am

The 10% of one's brain thing is a gross misstatement. What it is, is humans generally use only 9-15 percent (some times, 20%) of their brain actively, and at once. Different areas of the brain allocating different functions and all that. I have no doubt htat people woho have trained themselves to think about certain subjects on autopilot can utilise that plus the usual percentage, but I've never seen it put to the test.
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Post by Miss Valentine on Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:53 pm

Gotta love Wiki-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reiki

Interesting views on the working of the human brain. Esp the part about the female brain being much harder to shut down than the male brain. Hehehehe my brain does hate me!! I have been told by some people that I have a male brain (that's nothing to do with sexuality, just the way the brain processes logic) because I'm good at memorizing instructions, figuring out basic logic and my orienteering skills are good (I can actually read a map!), all associated with the male brain. But then I have conflict because of my "blonde" scatty moments, and yeah it's true I tend to think almost constantly, even if it's something really stupid. Maybe I have a conflicting brain! Mr Green

And with regards to the amount of brain we use, I think it's probably variable. When I was told I had Perfect Pitch (AP) I did some research. Scientists did brain activity tests and found that people with AP use a different part of their brain to others without the ability-

"If the right genes and music lessons do prompt people to label tones in a fundamentally different way, then this cognitive difference should show up in their brains. As indeed it does. In a 1998 study, neuroscientist Robert Zatorre of the Montreal Neurological Institute in Canada ran positron emission tomography (PET) scans of musicians with and without absolute pitch while they listened to tones.

When asked to label a tone, the musicians lacking absolute pitch had a flash of brain activity in the right frontal cortex—an area associated with working memory and comparing incoming sensory information with memories. By contrast, the musicians who had absolute pitch could identify tones without accessing working memory at all. Instead, they showed a spark of brain activity high in the left frontal cortex—a region related to long-term memory. Zattore suggests that the absolute pitch users were tapping into a more deeply ingrained pitch template that they developed during childhood lessons."


Funny thing the human brain! Which brings me back onto the topic. I wonder if they have done any of these tests on people with magic or psychic ability, I haven't found anything yet but wondered if anyone else knew if they'd tried it.
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Post by JET73L on Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:50 am

Yeah. Regularly inconclusive, but sometimes odd patterns. Also, Heinlen once wrote a theoretical story about a guy who was tested to be clairvoyant (if he could see one side of an object, he could see the other sides), and when a part of his brain that had no known function was damaged, he lost the ability. I don't know how much of that was based in biological studies fact or historical anecdote, if any.
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Post by Revenant on Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:04 am

霊気 - nice. I'd like to collect those.

You know how thay say: It's impossible to proove the existence of unexistable, but it is also impossible to proove its unexistance
If I only traineined to develop my magician abilities from my childhood I woul now be able to do something unusual...
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Post by Mr. Midgar on Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:39 am

Revenant wrote:Not everyone belive in magic, but everyone agrees that there are lots of things whitch science cant give an explanation to. Magic is something that makes the impossibilities possible. Magic is more then a fantasy.
What do you think of magic?
Although I agree that there are a lot of things that science cannot yet explain, I do not believe that science wont be able to explain them eventually. So, I do not believe in a surreal or metaphysical form of magic of anykind. It is fun to talk about.

But I have no problem in seeing magic as more something of context than anything else. So if this is the case then magic may very well exist to children, who are awed to wake up on Christmas morning to find Santa has flown to their house to deliver presents. Haha.

As an idea in fictional mediums such as books, movies, and video games I think magic is fun because it adds a sense that anything can happen, and occasionally throws a wrench into the gears of the usualy mundane and predicatable storylines that we all know.

As a performance craft in our own world (the likes of David Copperfield and David Blaine) magic is fun because it is an unusual artform which has left me scratching my head more than once, even though I know there is nothing supernatural about it. And it is far more difficult than many people would believe, as the set-up (requiring perfect timing and persuation) is almost always just as important as the eventual pay-off in making a magic trick so successfull.

It is the force which challenges my usual sense of logic and hard-set reasoning that makes it so vexing, while at the same time so entertaining. And I enjoy it for that, and that alone.

Magic is cool.

EDIT: I have tried to reconstruct this post as well as I could, but I am afraid I wrote it late at night yesterday and now I can't remember all the points I was trying to make. I think I know what happened JET; now that you have new moderator powers, you need to be extra careful to click the right button, either Edit or Quote, because you can edit anyones posts now. You probably meant to quote my post but ended up editing it by acco. Oopsy. No real harm done.


Last edited by Mr. Midgar on Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:26 pm; edited 8 times in total
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Post by JET73L on Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:25 am

I copy-pasted Midgar's post into the quick-reply thing, and I must have accidentally messed something up because it replaced his post, changing the quotes. I'm sorry, Midgar, if you can reconstruct your post from the quotes, go ahead and try. This was a problem that I'll have to assume was caused by me, so I'll see if there's any way to fix it. I don't think there is a way, to, say, "Undo Last Edit," but i'll still try.
(unless of course that actually is your post, in which case you should tell me in case my reality is glitching again.)
Midgar wrote:As an idea in fictional mediums such as books, movies, and video games I think magic is fun because it adds a sense that anything can happen, and occasionally throws a wrench into the gears of the usualy mundane and predicatable storylines that we all know.
A wizard did it.

Midgar wrote:As a performance craft in our own world (the likes of David Copperfield and David Blaine) magic is fun because it is an unusual artform which has left me scratching my head more than once, even though I know there is nothing supernatural about it. And it is far more difficult than many people would believe, as the set-up (requiring perfect timing and persuation) is almost always just as important as the eventual pay-off in making a magic trick so successfull.
THis is my favorite kind of magic, illusion. Not satatistics manipulation like most "sleight-of-hand" tricks are based on, but the sort of magic you might see done by David Blaine (have only seen one copperfield show, and it was supposed to be one of his worst, and Criss Angel... I haven't developed a definite opinion about him yet.). I was just saying the other day that it's a piuty about how eventually, technology will be able to easily replicate any effect done by a human preparing for days, and practicing for years, and people will just say "He had the nanobots cut the card into microscopic pieces, and reassemble an exact replica of the card on the other side of the stage" (for example).
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